Independence Betrayed in Pakistan
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Independence Betrayed in Pakistan

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Old 08-14-2007, 11:32 PM
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Independence Betrayed in Pakistan

[color="Black"][font="System"]Independence Day brings to mind military rule, violence, threats to sovereignty and the failure of the system.

Today the Islamic Republic of Pakistan celebrates the 60th anniversary of its independence from India. For more than half of Pakistan’s existence as an independent homeland it has been ruled by the armed forces, who have never worked seriously to allow a viable political system to evolve. A nation without direction from its birth, the state has become a rogue because of continuous interference from the army.

As Pakistan celebrates its independence, it does so in the knowledge that the United States has threatened to defy the sovereignty of its air space and strike at suspected “terrorist” targets along the border with Afghanistan. Apart from that, NATO forces have also threatened to follow “terrorists” into Pakistan despite the fact that Pakistan is a sovereign state.

It is the country’s foreign debt that makes it so vulnerable to the influence and pressure of Western powers. It is said that every unborn child will have to pay Rs1,500 in interest on the country’s loans even before coming to into the world.

Until July 20, 2007 there was a nexus among the armed forces, led by the Pakistan army, the bureaucrats and the judiciary. However, this nexus has invariably opposed civilian government whenever the political forces and peoples’ movements tried to assert themselves. A political class arising from feudal and tribal backgrounds served this nexus to sabotage the fundamental rights of the people and take control of the national resources.

After July 20, however, the judiciary and legal community asserted themselves and won a major victory over military and bureaucratic powers. Even after the struggle of the lawyers led to the restoration of the chief justice, Iftikhar M. Chaudhry, there is a long road ahead to achieve the complete restoration of democracy and fundamental human rights, supremacy of the rule of law, abolition of “black” laws and reforms in the policing system.

Therefore, Pakistan is celebrating Independence Day at a time when there is still strong military rule and in which a general who has ruled the country for eight years after dismissing the civilian government is insisting on another five years in office and the right to wear his military uniform.

Though fundamental rights have been restored with the reinstatement of parliament, these rights are denied by the powerful ruling elite. Policy decisions are made by a group of five-star generals , the Corps Commanders, and the cabinet has little choice but to approve these decisions. The parliament – the National Assembly and Senate – are virtually rubber stamp institutions.

Pakistan is celebrating Independence Day despite the fact that a military operation has been going on since 2001 in the southern province of Balochistan. The army and air force are bombarding the civilian population regularly and have to date killed more than 3000 people, along with several political activists including Akbar Bugti, a former chief minister and tribal leader. More than 5,000 people have been arrested including another former chief minister, Akhter Mengal. Several hundred people are missing after being arrested by state intelligence agencies. The civilian government has no control over the province and Balochistan is controlled by a military installation situated in the province capital. It is the army that has checkpoints on the highways and ensures that natural resources are out of the reach of the local population and even the local government.

Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day at a time when the war on terror has made every citizen a suspected terrorist. In the North West Frontier Province, people are being arrested, disappeared and killed through massive military actions on the pretext of the war on terror. Disappearances after arrest have become common throughout the country. More than 4,000 persons have disappeared or been kept incommunicado, their whereabouts unknown. The state agencies, particularly the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence and military intelligence have the power to arrest without producing anyone before a court of law.

Every city has military cantonments where there are torture cells. Torture in custody is increasing every year. People generally do not report torture because of the threat of police brutality. In 2005 about 1,200 cases of torture were reported. In 2006, 1,319 cases were reported and during the first half of 2007, 1,100 cases have already been reported.

Torture in custody to obtain confessions is now a common practice. However, these are only the reported cases; it is believed that the actual figure is probably twice as high. Sadly, the lower judiciary works in connivance with the police to extract money on the basis of confessional statements. There are cases of torture including one in which the penis of a detainee was severed and in another lime water was poured into a man’s anus. In yet another eight arrested persons were forced to act like dogs and bite each other.

Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day at a time when women do not have equal rights. They are still threatened by the Hadood Law introduced by the former dictator Zia ul-Haq, which makes it difficult and dangerous for a woman to allege rape, among other things. Nothing changed after the introduction of new family law in November 2006 and more than 1,000 women have been victims of honor killing.

The incidence of rape remains high and more than 3,000 cases, including gang rape, have been reported throughout the country. No equal opportunity of employment is provided. Religious violence is endemic and there is a struggle for the creation of a separate Islamic home land. Sectarian violence accounts for more than 500 deaths a year, mainly Shia and Sunni but also those who base their beliefs on the Brelvi and Deobandi schools of thought. Bomb attacks on mosques of different sects are very common.

Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day despite the fact that minorities, who have always claimed equal rights as citizens, do not even have the right to perform their religious duties. They also do not have equal rights in the election process. They number among the highest victims of the blasphemy laws, the use of which has instilled insecurity and fear among the religious minority groups. Christians, Hindus and others are denied equal wages and job opportunities. Even the Ahmedi sect of Islam is denied the right to bury their loved ones in the common graveyard.

Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day with more than half its population living in shantytowns and slums without drinking water, sanitation, access to health care and education. Every year more than one million people are displaced without compensation from their homes or threatened with displacement. Old villages are demolished on the pretext of construction of mega-projects despite the fact that the inhabitants have been living in them for more than a century. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening day by day.

According to the State Bank of Pakistan more than 34 percent of the population is living below the poverty line, whereas independent sources claim that the figure is closer to 42 percent. Prices of essential items are almost 300 percent higher now than in October 1999 when the Pakistan Army took over control of the country. Due to privatization without transparency, unemployment has increased and the working hours for those fortunate enough to have jobs has increased from eight to twelve hours a day.

The government’s statistics about unemployment are generally believed to be incorrect but there is no way to check. It is because of unemployment and job insecurity that cases of suicide have increased.

It is in this atmosphere that the Pakistani elite is celebrating Independence Day with great enthusiasm. The media is talking more about freedom and independence than it is about the truth of how a nation is being betrayed in the name of nationalism and Islam.

article by Baseer Naveed

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-05-2007, 01:46 AM
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Gloves off.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Independence Day brings to mind military rule, violence, threats to sovereignty and the failure of the system.
Pessimistic approach, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
A nation without direction from its birth, the state has become a rogue because of continuous interference from the army.
What do we have to blame the Army everytime? We are the ones responsible.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
It is the country’s foreign debt that makes it so vulnerable to the influence and pressure of Western powers. It is said that every unborn child will have to pay Rs1,500 in interest on the country’s loans even before coming to into the world.
I hope you're not blaming the army again? Do you also know that the debt is now at an all time low? Yes, it's happened in the Musharraf era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
After July 20, however, the judiciary and legal community asserted themselves and won a major victory over military and bureaucratic powers. Even after the struggle of the lawyers led to the restoration of the chief justice, Iftikhar M. Chaudhry, there is a long road ahead to achieve the complete restoration of democracy and fundamental human rights, supremacy of the rule of law, abolition of “black” laws and reforms in the policing system.
And this article isn't going to help build the nation. It's time to bring out the positives and show them to the people for inspiration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Therefore, Pakistan is celebrating Independence Day at a time when there is still strong military rule and in which a general who has ruled the country for eight years after dismissing the civilian government is insisting on another five years in office and the right to wear his military uniform.
The corrupt civillian Government run by the crooks. It's people like you who wanted Nawaz and likes out because the entire country was in trouble.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Though fundamental rights have been restored with the reinstatement of parliament, these rights are denied by the powerful ruling elite. Policy decisions are made by a group of five-star generals , the Corps Commanders, and the cabinet has little choice but to approve these decisions. The parliament – the National Assembly and Senate – are virtually rubber stamp institutions.
What decisions? Do you go out of the house after seeking permission from an Army personnel?

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Pakistan is celebrating Independence Day despite the fact that a military operation has been going on since 2001 in the southern province of Balochistan. The army and air force are bombarding the civilian population regularly and have to date killed more than 3000 people
Excuse me? They are TERRORISTS! Does that say anything to you? Have you heard of the suicide bomb blasts and abduction of innocent civillians? I'm sure you have. It's just that you don't consider them worthy to be mentioned in your article.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
along with several political activists including Akbar Bugti, a former chief minister and tribal leader.
That does it for me. He was a traitor at best and we're glad that he's dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
More than 5,000 people have been arrested including another former chief minister, Akhter Mengal. Several hundred people are missing after being arrested by state intelligence agencies.
National interest; I hope you're aware of the global scenario as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
The civilian government has no control over the province and Balochistan is controlled by a military installation situated in the province capital. It is the army that has checkpoints on the highways and ensures that natural resources are out of the reach of the local population and even the local government.
Bullshit, I say to that. The Army is protecting those resources from being attacked by the same terrorists whom you consider innocent civillians. The one's who've previously attacked pipelines with rocket launchers and whatnot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
The incidence of rape remains high and more than 3,000 cases, including gang rape, have been reported throughout the country. No equal opportunity of employment is provided. Religious violence is endemic and there is a struggle for the creation of a separate Islamic home land. Sectarian violence accounts for more than 500 deaths a year, mainly Shia and Sunni but also those who base their beliefs on the Brelvi and Deobandi schools of thought. Bomb attacks on mosques of different sects are very common.
Haha! But I thought you opposed military action against the terrorists using these issues to their own advantage?

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day despite the fact that minorities, who have always claimed equal rights as citizens, do not even have the right to perform their religious duties.
How moronic of you to say that. The minorities are part of Pakistan and every citizen regardless of race, creed, or culture respects each other. I studied in a catholic school for 10 years situated in the heart of Pakistan so based on my experience, the above is totially not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Pakistan celebrates its Independence Day with more than half its population living in shantytowns and slums without drinking water, sanitation, access to health care and education. Every year more than one million people are displaced without compensation from their homes or threatened with displacement. Old villages are demolished on the pretext of construction of mega-projects despite the fact that the inhabitants have been living in them for more than a century. The gap between the rich and the poor is widening day by day.
What part of Pakistan are you talking about? The situation here is far and I mean FAR better than India.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
According to the State Bank of Pakistan more than 34 percent of the population is living below the poverty line, whereas independent sources claim that the figure is closer to 42 percent. Prices of essential items are almost 300 percent higher now than in October 1999 when the Pakistan Army took over control of the country. Due to privatization without transparency, unemployment has increased and the working hours for those fortunate enough to have jobs has increased from eight to twelve hours a day.
So has the quality of life. Pakistan today is 10x better than it used to be in the 1990's.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
The government’s statistics about unemployment are generally believed to be incorrect but there is no way to check. It is because of unemployment and job insecurity that cases of suicide have increased.
How about educational reforms? Free education? Free healthcare? Free books? Local governments?

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
It is in this atmosphere that the Pakistani elite is celebrating Independence Day with great enthusiasm. The media is talking more about freedom and independence than it is about the truth of how a nation is being betrayed in the name of nationalism and Islam.
You need to do a lot of research my friend.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
article by Baseer Naveed

agree with most of the things
What is that you agree with?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:32 AM
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Aray yara yay kia yara postmortem kar dia aap be army mein ho kia yah shah say ziaida shah kay wafadar ? lol bharhal ab jab kay postmortem ho gia hai tu mein shair lal haq bantay howay clues per kaam shro karta hon takay case solve ho ( shair lal haq goron nay naam kharab kar dia Sherlock Holmes kar dia asal mein yay tu pathan bhai they :P)

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Pessimistic approach, maybe?
lolz no actually i really care about these issues b/w Abdullah says ( khush rayna acha hota hai khushfahami mein rayna nehi)


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What do we have to blame the Army every time? We are the ones responsible.
oh so you are responsible for that lol. be more specific plz lol

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I hope you're not blaming the army again?
well i think author blame all governments and caz its bhushruf uncle era so of course he blame him too.

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Do you also know that the debt is now at an all time low? Yes, it's happened in the Musharraf era.
I don't know what your source is i hope not government :P anyway here some facts

Pakistan’s external debt has climbed to $36.9 billion from $33.6 billion in 1999 despite the fact the country received at least $10 billion in economic, military and development aid from the United States, over $6 billion in privatization proceeds, and a relief of $1.6 billion in loan write-offs by foreign governments over the last seven years, the experts say.

The rescheduling of Paris Club debts provided an additional relief of $1.2 to $1.5 billion annually in terms of debt service payments. Is the government’s debt management policy as sound and successful as it claims it is, or a historic opportunity to restructure the country’s high debt levels has fallen victim to political expediency or a false sense of achievement, the economists question.

Even after having received such generous assistance, Pakistan’s external debt to GDP ratio is 28 per cent - slightly worse than Africa’s 26.2 per cent, which also happens to be the average for all the developing countries. The average external debt to GDP ratio of all emerging markets declined from 42.1 in 1999 to 26.2 per cent in 2006.

Pakistan received generous foreign aid as well as much higher levels of foreign direct investment (FDI) in the post-9/11 period. Remittances averaged around $4 billion a year during 2003-2006 compared to an average of $1.5 billion in the 1990s.

The government’s claim of having broken the begging bowl has also proved wrong as its share in total public and publicly-guaranteed debt has increased from 37.5 per cent to 50.2 per cent in 2006.

The economic experts have already refuted the tall claims of economic growth by the power corridors and warned that the GDP growth rate could not be maintained in the current fiscal.

“Unrealistic claims of economic growth in recent days by the power corridors have made economy’s future bleak as they, instead of taking appropriate measures to arrest the negative indicators, are only making paper-claims,” (Dr Shahid Hasan Siddiqui.)

At present, the trade deficit, current account deficit, budgetary deficits, internal and external debts and the pace of throwing away national assets through privatization is the highest in the history of Pakistan

The country’s overall external debt maintained its upward trend in 2006-07, rising by 4.35 percent or $1.1623 billion in nine months (June-March 2006-07).

“The total external debt of the Pakistan stood at $38.864 billion on March 31, 2007, up by 4.35 percent or $1.623 billion, as compared with $37.241 billion on June 30, 2006,” data released by the State Bank of Pakistan said here on Saturday.

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And this article isn't going to help build the nation. It's time to bring out the positives and show them to the people for inspiration.
well i think its helps us to realize that as nation we need to accept our failures and learn a lesson from it not just singing songs for chacha mushi

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The corrupt civillian Government run by the crooks. It's people like you who wanted Nawaz and likes out because the entire country was in trouble.
(abdullah says " agar aap baymar hon or aap ko eik doctor ke medicine say aram nehi aa rha ho tu kia aap kesi engineer say apna alag karnay ko kaho gay ? nehi na dosra doctor or teesra doc tu dear politics civilans ka kaam hai army ka kaam nehi)

Well dude open your eyes these corrupt peoples are still the part of general musalat government. i don't want nawaz, babi, bhai g or mushi i wish they all go to hell. all i want is chacha wardi landa que nehi, pension lay kar janda que nehi :P ..whole nation is suffering caz of one man obstinacy. jaan chor yar. b.w when you examine the figures for corruption by armed forces personnel you discover the latter are no better than officials from the civilian cadres. The only difference between the two is the fact that corruption by civilians is exposed and made public, but corruption involving members of the armed forces is kept under wraps.

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What decisions? Do you go out of the house after seeking permission from an Army personnel?
Mostly all decisions. Not that way but the armed forces are involved in the abductions of civilians from their houses, offices and bus stop. figures are about 115 people who have been abducted since 2001 by the military government. These people have been in government’s custody without their crimes being revealed to them. Not only religious and educated civilians have been illegally abducted but also military men could not escape the repercussions of the current military regime’s policy of being US close ally on rooting out terrorism. and some shameful peoples are supporting him i called them rag dolls
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Excuse me? They are TERRORISTS! Does that say anything to you? Have you heard of the suicide bomb blasts and abduction of innocent civillians? I'm sure you have. It's just that you don't consider them worthy to be mentioned in your article.
excuse u :P ... Are they are terrorists ? does any one of them is charge by any court in Pakistan ?mushi says and u accept it great.

Constitution says in Article 10 (1), “No person who is arrested shall be detained in custody without being informed, as soon as may be, of the grounds for such arrest, nor shall he be denied the right to consult and be defended by a legal practitioner of his choice.”

Whereas in Article 10 (2), it says, “Every person who is arrested and detained in custody shall be produced before a magistrate within a period of twenty-four hours of such arrest, excluding the time necessary for the journey from the place of arrest to the court of the nearest magistrate, and no such person shall be detained in custody beyond the said period without the authority of a magistrate.”

Article 9: “No person shall be deprived of life and liberty save in accordance with law.”

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That does it for me. He was a traitor at best and we're glad that he's dead.
well few months ago i really believe that too but after knowing about him iam so sorry for thatNawab Akbar Bugti is the person who voted for the creation of Pakistan before its eventual founding in 1947. he can't be a traitor

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National interest; I hope you're aware of the global scenario as well.
lolz come on stop bullshitting the nation its bushi interest.Khalid Khawaja (ex-ISI personnel ) says Hum apnau ko martay hain, amricano say paisay laitay hain aur ginti poori kartay hain (we take money from Americans to kill our own people. We just count the numbers),

Apparently it’s true that the number of people captured, as claimed by the President in his book, “In the Line of Fire,” are actually those who have been randomly kidnapped in a mysterious way and are kept in detention for a year or so and then released without any charges proved against them, he said. very shameful act

“We have captured 672 and handed over 369 to the US. We have earned bounties totaling millions of dollars,” says President Musharaff at the back cover of his book. (he is a bounty hunter lol i love the movie )

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Bullshit, I say to that. The Army is protecting those resources from being attacked by the same terrorists whom you consider innocent civilians. The one's who've previously attacked pipelines with rocket launchers and whatnot!
lol so all balochi ppls are terrorist thats great. yara root cause ka pata karo na like ur bushi says:P why they are attacking what kinda demands they have. army is doing the same mistake they did in 1971.

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Haha! But I thought you opposed military action against the terrorists using these issues to their own advantage?
lol so ur wrong thx god

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How moronic of you to say that. The minorities are part of Pakistan and every citizen regardless of race, creed, or culture respects each other. I studied in a catholic school for 10 years situated in the heart of Pakistan so based on my experience, the above is totially not true.
well from this point i am disagree with author (yay be bhalla koi baat howi)

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What part of Pakistan are you talking about? The situation here is far and I mean FAR better than India.
what part ?dude all over Pakistan & don't compare it with India they don't have any dicdator :P second yaaaaak Indians

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So has the quality of life. Pakistan today is 10x better than it used to be in the 1990's.
actually 3rd class quality of life :P ..your 10x figures are actually -10x :P

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How about educational reforms?
hmm they did some work but not enough lets c according to a report 3/4 pakistani children are living far from their families wanderering in groups from them 76 % of childrens are uneducated 55% of them have continuous throat and nose irritation thats why they alway feel temperature. 65% of them have skin irritating & coughs and about 82% of them are sniffing glue, petrol and thinner. i dont have accurate figures but they are also efffected with Hepatitis & Aids.

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Free education?
yeah good step but again they have to monitor it. About 15,000 ghost' are in Sindh

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Free healthcare?
lolz its a joke no sign of that dear. from where u get these news lolz

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Free books?
good step but only happened in Punjab (Sindh mein tu barish mein kharab hogaye )

Local governments?
good step but non political local governments elections is not a good idea

You need to do a lot of research my friend.
dude i must say don't be a rag doll use your brain may Allah G bless U amen

What is that you agree with?
i think u know that now
case closed ...peace out
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Old 09-10-2007, 04:04 AM
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I was quoting the author and not you but since you've replied to it, lets have a healthy debate.

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Originally Posted by aragon View Post
I don't know what your source is i hope not government :P anyway here some facts

Pakistan’s external debt has climbed to $36.9 billion from $33.6 billion in 1999 despite the fact the country received at least $10 billion in economic, military and development aid from the United States, over $6 billion in privatization proceeds, and a relief of $1.6 billion in loan write-offs by foreign governments over the last seven years, the experts say.

The rescheduling of Paris Club debts provided an additional relief of $1.2 to $1.5 billion annually in terms of debt service payments. Is the government’s debt management policy as sound and successful as it claims it is, or a historic opportunity to restructure the country’s high debt levels has fallen victim to political expediency or a false sense of achievement, the economists question.

Even after having received such generous assistance, Pakistan’s external debt to GDP ratio is 28 per cent - slightly worse than Africa’s 26.2 per cent, which also happens to be the average for all the developing countries. The average external debt to GDP ratio of all emerging markets declined from 42.1 in 1999 to 26.2 per cent in 2006.

Pakistan received generous foreign aid as well as much higher levels of foreign direct investment (FDI) in the post-9/11 period. Remittances averaged around $4 billion a year during 2003-2006 compared to an average of $1.5 billion in the 1990s.

The government’s claim of having broken the begging bowl has also proved wrong as its share in total public and publicly-guaranteed debt has increased from 37.5 per cent to 50.2 per cent in 2006.

The economic experts have already refuted the tall claims of economic growth by the power corridors and warned that the GDP growth rate could not be maintained in the current fiscal.

“Unrealistic claims of economic growth in recent days by the power corridors have made economy’s future bleak as they, instead of taking appropriate measures to arrest the negative indicators, are only making paper-claims,” (Dr Shahid Hasan Siddiqui.)

At present, the trade deficit, current account deficit, budgetary deficits, internal and external debts and the pace of throwing away national assets through privatization is the highest in the history of Pakistan

The country’s overall external debt maintained its upward trend in 2006-07, rising by 4.35 percent or $1.1623 billion in nine months (June-March 2006-07).

“The total external debt of the Pakistan stood at $38.864 billion on March 31, 2007, up by 4.35 percent or $1.623 billion, as compared with $37.241 billion on June 30, 2006,” data released by the State Bank of Pakistan said here on Saturday.


Twisted facts. Here is something you should consider reading in conjunction with those above before you jump to a conclusion:
  • the Asian financial crisis;
  • economic sanctions — according to Colin Powell, Pakistan was "sanctioned to the eyeballs";
  • global recession;
  • severe rioting in the port city of Karachi;
  • a severe drought — the worst in Pakistan's history, lasting four years;
  • heightened perceptions of risk as a result of military tensions with India — with as many as a million troops on the border, and predictions of impending (potentially nuclear) war;
  • the post-9/11 military action in neighboring Afghanistan, with a massive influx of refugees from that country;
  • the 2005 Pakistan earthquake
  • the 2007 Balochistan flooding

GDP in 2000: 3,826,111

GDP in 2006: 6,581,103

Public Debt in 1999-2000: 100% of the country’s GDP

Public Debt in 2006-2007: 55% of GDP

Fact: Having improved its finances, Pakistan's government announced in 2004 that it would no longer require IMF assistance, and the assistance program ended in that year.

According to John Wall, the World Bank Country Director for Pakistan, Now Pakistan faces higher quality problems—the problems of success.

Pakistan is among the fastest growing economies in the world as its economy has reached the size of $129 billion from a mere $70 billion a few years earlier. Major automakers, such as BMW, Toyota, and Honda have invested in manufacturing facilities in the country.

In 2005, the World Bank reported that:

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Pakistan was the top reformer in the region and the number 10 reformer globally — making it easier to start a business, reducing the cost to register property, increasing penalties for violating corporate governance rules, and replacing a requirement to license every shipment with two-year duration licenses for traders.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
well i think its helps us to realize that as nation we need to accept our failures and learn a lesson from it not just singing songs for chacha mushi


People like you have been doing it for the past 60 odd years or so, where are the results? I don't see any good as a result. It's time you should consider doing something constructive instead of yapping like a nitwit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Well dude open your eyes these corrupt peoples are still the part of general musalat government. i don't want nawaz, babi, bhai g or mushi i wish they all go to hell. all i want is chacha wardi landa que nehi, pension lay kar janda que nehi :P ..whole nation is suffering caz of one man obstinacy. jaan chor yar. b.w when you examine the figures for corruption by armed forces personnel you discover the latter are no better than officials from the civilian cadres. The only difference between the two is the fact that corruption by civilians is exposed and made public, but corruption involving members of the armed forces is kept under wraps.
If there are such elements in the Armed forces then why don't 'we' as a nation stand up and confront them face/face? If you have proof, why don't you submit a petition in the Supreme court?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Mostly all decisions. Not that way but the armed forces are involved in the abductions of civilians from their houses, offices and bus stop. figures are about 115 people who have been abducted since 2001 by the military government. These people have been in government’s custody without their crimes being revealed to them. Not only religious and educated civilians have been illegally abducted but also military men could not escape the repercussions of the current military regime’s policy of being US close ally on rooting out terrorism. and some shameful peoples are supporting him i called them rag dolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Constitution says in Article 10 (1), “No person who is arrested shall be detained in custody without being informed, as soon as may be, of the grounds for such arrest, nor shall he be denied the right to consult and be defended by a legal practitioner of his choice.”

Whereas in Article 10 (2), it says, “Every person who is arrested and detained in custody shall be produced before a magistrate within a period of twenty-four hours of such arrest, excluding the time necessary for the journey from the place of arrest to the court of the nearest magistrate, and no such person shall be detained in custody beyond the said period without the authority of a magistrate.”

Article 9: “No person shall be deprived of life and liberty save in accordance with law.”


FYI: I hope you're aware of the NWO and places like [Only Registered and Activated Users Can See Links. Click Here To Register...].


Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
excuse u :P ... Are they are terrorists ? does any one of them is charge by any court in Pakistan ?mushi says and u accept it great.


Unlike you, I am not blindfolded. And honestly, this obstinate denying isn't going to help you much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
well few months ago i really believe that too but after knowing about him iam so sorry for thatNawab Akbar Bugti is the person who voted for the creation of Pakistan before its eventual founding in 1947. he can't be a traitor


Ever heard about his own militia? the RAW involvement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
lolz come on stop bullshitting the nation its bushi interest.Khalid Khawaja (ex-ISI personnel ) says Hum apnau ko martay hain, amricano say paisay laitay hain aur ginti poori kartay hain (we take money from Americans to kill our own people. We just count the numbers),
Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
Apparently it’s true that the number of people captured, as claimed by the President in his book, “In the Line of Fire,” are actually those who have been randomly kidnapped in a mysterious way and are kept in detention for a year or so and then released without any charges proved against them, he said. very shameful act “We have captured 672 and handed over 369 to the US. We have earned bounties totaling millions of dollars,” says President Musharaff at the back cover of his book. (he is a bounty hunter lol i love the movie )


You want the terrorists to be honored?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
lol so all balochi ppls are terrorist thats great. yara root cause ka pata karo na like ur bushi says:P why they are attacking what kinda demands they have. army is doing the same mistake they did in 1971.


I didn't say all of them were terrorists but certainly they're growing in numbers. I'd suggest that you watch CNN's Pakistan: the threat within.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
what part ?dude all over Pakistan & don't compare it with India they don't have any dicdator :P second yaaaaak Indians


Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
actually 3rd class quality of life :P ..your 10x figures are actually -10x :P


Research, maybe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
hmm they did some work but not enough lets c according to a report 3/4 pakistani children are living far from their families wanderering in groups from them 76 % of childrens are uneducated 55% of them have continuous throat and nose irritation thats why they alway feel temperature. 65% of them have skin irritating & coughs and about 82% of them are sniffing glue, petrol and thinner. i dont have accurate figures but they are also efffected with Hepatitis & Aids.


You don't expect over-night miracles, do you? Work is still in progress and I am glad it's taken pace.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
lolz its a joke no sign of that dear. from where u get these news lolz


Stop denying, if you'd please? Here's something you should study:

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Then we have Disaster relief management society which is helping 1 million+ poor families financially. And of course, Punjab government's reformed the healthcare dept and people are receiving free treatment even in the rural areas by qualified doctors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aragon View Post
good step but only happened in Punjab (Sindh mein tu barish mein kharab hogaye )
Dekhien bhai, yeh kaam kerna provincial govts ki zumedari hai, federal ki nahi. Agar yeh kaam fed ney kerne hoon to in provincial govts ki kia zarorat hai phir? is waqt pml-q aka louton/crooks ka raaj hai jo shayed pehle govts se kam kha rahe hein per still kha rahe hien. Liable yeh log hien, akaila musharraf nahi, is lie in ka sab se pehle ehtesab hona chahiye.

Mujeh agar musharraf se koi ikhtelaf hai to woh backdoor diplomacy per hai.
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