They are not Pakistanies

[sunil73]

Sunil, if you had really read and understood what everyone tried to tell you from the very beginning of this thread then it wouldn't have come to this. If you sling mud at others then you should be ready to get some on yourself. If you think that people are jumping to conclusions about you then you are mistaken. Just like people who think every man with a beard is a muslim. Or that all christians in pakistan belong to a certain (no names) class. I have said this before and will say it again that racism is all over the world! Do you not see that? Or is your view limited to the rim of the kuann where you are stuck? Or maybe all this anger comes from memories of an unfortunate childhood, wallah alam. May allah let you come to peace.

Go live as a brown man in any western country and you'll find out for yourself. You may think yourself worldly but man, you are not rational. You think the goras will take you in? WRONG!! You will remain an outsider because you ARE and outsider. They just don't do anything because they get punished for discrimination.

If you think minorities are persecuted in pakistan, you are DEAD wrong!! EVERY POOR MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD IS PERSECUTED!! Talk about ingnorance. You will keep on tooting your own horn and not realize that this IS part of living in a third world country. It has nothing to do with what religion you are. Have you not seen the people that died in the earthquake? Was their plight not enough to open your eyes? Sad to see that after such an incident we are sitting here arguing and pointing fingers. .

GET A GRIP.

From the beginning your all posts irrational and mambo jumbo of minor mindset. And don’t play Ama bhi here, you will not sell nothing to me posturing like that.

From the beginning I had shown and held that this is not bona fide right of muslims to claim insecurity or discrimination.

I been to this website from the last 6 moths, been through many topics of forums, and its delude me ppl crying or playing hypocritically been discriminated by west. My attention was to shows that “ those living glass house don’t have to through stones on other”. And I do achieve what I was attending to. But let Lord Almighty be the judge.

It amazes me that fellow pakistanis will stop at nothing in defaming the image of the country where they were born. A muslim and christian are supposed to be brothers in faith, but it's people like you and the ones setting fire to churches and imam bargahs that break the ties of the hearts. I am ashamed when I hear such crap from people who have put their minds to sleep and sold their souls to the media by accepting the brain-washing they dish out.

I faced a lot of problems growing up in pakistan but that doesn't mean I'll go scream bloody discrimination every time someone cuts me off, because believe it or not, at some point we have to come to terms to it. When pakistan gets educated and developed enough then I assure you things will be different because there will be rules and they will get implemented. It will take time, but I assure you, we'll get there with or without the likes of you.

Wow, in the end you do on climax of your hypocrisy. Again you crying for unjust or discrimination of west for brown ppl.

I am living in Netherlands from the last 7 years, hope you do believe me, but I haven’t faces any problem yet. This shows how cunning you are in favorable to the country where you living and getting every advantages of good live. USA, if you really residing there, one of utmost example of immigrants ppl.

If you faces real problem there then you won’t have to reside there anymore, go back Pakistan and make your society MODEL from there for other. Then you have enough credibility to attain the attention of others.

[noorzei]

Please All of you, stop for a moment, we all Pakistani. Sunil, me, evian, endurer and many others, no mater what belief holding but Pakistan does joint us together. I read all the forum many time, I have no problem with Sunil’s point of view, as I aware there are extremist essence which persecuted our Christian minority, in response of what ever happen in west. Our Pakistani Christian brothers are not scapegoat of west, then why some extremist target them in the name of islam. Why not we peaceful Muslims condemn them openly and try to diminish the atmosphere of hatred or Christian discrimination.

Works of Christian community won’t ignore in Pakistan, they did a lot for the development of Pakistan. Schools, Hospitals are most focal points of Christian service for Pakistan. You will be surprise, my uncle is major in army, he told us once, most army personal reached to success, are educated from Christian schools. But still some garbage mind look at Christians as easy or soft target. This is insanity, i had notice these attacked on christian in the news.

And might this offend Sunil and many others, its normal. But we have to thing about this, resolve about this before this hatred getting strong in our hearts. And you know our enemy will get advantage of it. I hope that Sunil also understand me, as I respect him Pakistani.

To evian and endurer’s, We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesn’t mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him.

Accepting faults doesn’t made anyone lesser but put on dignity to lead other in right path. I remember , we four brother quarrel many times a day but in the end we ate together and laughing before going to bed.

Its true that we never committed any persecution but we does close our eyes and let it be. and now I come to realize that we have to stood up and take part before its to late.

I think collaboration with Sunil’s (and many other, as I hard same sentiments from my Christian friends) view points give less room to those namely, long beard “muslims” and minor the chance of any religious persecution in our country.

I hope all of you agree with me and stop this, in the end we remain Pakistani brothers. Please think about this.

Waslam.

[snakhtar]

Sunil,

Don't take comments so personnally. I did not mean to offend you with my comments. If you consider all muslims as murderers it is perfectly fine. You have the liberty to think whatever you want to think [just like every body else here]. But please don't enforce your ideology on other people. We read newspapers and magazines too, and we as a musims understand, how many christians have persecuted muslims and vice versa.

If you watch Michael Moore's documentary 'Farenheit 9/11' you will learn how two muslims civilizations have been completely destroyed by the crusade war waged by the conservative christians of America [Bush and Cheney] and Europe [Tony Blair].

Secondly, if you read indian muslims history, you will learn how British goverments [christian fanatics] had massacred thousands of muslim families, after the 1857 war of independence. And had raped almost one million muslim women.

Third check the following links out and witness the persecution of muslims:

http://www.mwlusa.org/presentations/speech_persec.html

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/08/20/uzbeki1376.htm



CAN YOU JUSTIFY SUCH CHRISTIANS PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS

[Evian]

@ Noorzei:

"To evian and endurer’s, We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesn’t mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him. "

No one said anything in favor of discrimination, in case you didn't notice the posts in the beginning of the thread. I had already tried to clear this misunderstanding with sunil. Not one of us applauded the discrimination, you claim to read the whole forum, well you missed an important piece of info.

Discrimination happens to everyone in Pakistan, in case you didn't know....As a man, woman, child. You are missing my point here, it's just like the west screaming discrimination against women in islam when they are doing it themselves. If there are social and ethical issues in pakistan, they are evident in all religions, castes and sections of society. A poor woman/man or child will not get the required medical treatment because of lack of money, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone here. If a woman is targeted for the sins the men in her family committed, gang raped, it's fine..all's fair in war. A child will go without basic education and nutrition but that's fine, just usual day in the life of a person. People get wrong treatment in the hospital and die for no reason, oh too bad! Shit happens.

But we can all have a nice discussion, condemning the persecution of a certain sect of the society and feel good about ourselves. Fine. Have it your way, but is your zameer satisfied? Does that justify all that's going on around us? Or are you all too self absorbed to see that?

Oh, yes...we'll all remain pakistani so-called brothers after getting all this crap.

[snakhtar]

Sunil,

Let me inform you as a friend that your sources are not as authentic as they should be to justify your argument. Good and bad muslims are every where just like good and bad hindus, christians, and jews. So just concentrating your whole argument against the muslims would not help you win any points. Please next time do try to produce counterarguments, so that the readers don't worry that you are one hypocrite fanatic yourself. If you go back and read your own comments you will notice for yourself that all the arguments that you have provided up to this point against muslims reflects some ethnocentric motives.

As a friend I apologize if any fool from our community has inflicted harm on you and any other individual representing Pakistani minority group. There was once a time when muslims, christians, hindus, and jews use to live together as brothers, and as a peace loving civilization. But the growing fanaticism, unemployment, curruption, and apathy in all countries and society has certainly put humanity and all relationships on a brink. I regret much of what world has recently seen and gone through. And send a message of peace to all of you.

Please brother and sisters try to remember us as good friends and well wishers of yours. May peace be on you.

[Evian]

@ Sunil:

"I am living in Netherlands from the last 7 years, hope you do believe me, but I haven’t faces any problem yet. This shows how cunning you are in favorable to the country where you living and getting every advantages of good live. USA, if you really residing there, one of utmost example of immigrants ppl."


Well, sunil you probably haven't been there long enough, oh it will happen someday and you'll not even realize what hit you because you're too busy thinking of the "cruel" (according to you) pakistanis that it'll go right past your behind. It takes a little perceptiveness to see that one, specially since you are not even tuned to the culture of the Netherlands.

I am a muslim and I step away from people who discriminate against other religions, culture, color, sex, status etc. Because it is wrong in my religion, my book and because I was raised with moral and ethical values. This does not mean that I will shut up when you say smack about muslims or pakistanis, wether living in pakistan or abroad. What's wrong is and shall remain wrong. No one gets special treatment. As for the west, like I said jo baat bhalat hai, woh ghalat hi hai. Sirf pakistani ke karnay se koi gunah gunah-e-kabeerah nahin ho jata.

[noorzei]

@ Noorzei:

"To evian and endurer’s, We do have own ideas, and view points but it doesn’t mean we close our eyes from our surrounding, its remind me that ostrich who hide his head under sands, believing that enemy will ignore him. "

No one said anything in favor of discrimination, in case you didn't notice the posts in the beginning of the thread. I had already tried to clear this misunderstanding with sunil. Not one of us applauded the discrimination, you claim to read the whole forum, well you missed an important piece of info.

Discrimination happens to everyone in Pakistan, in case you didn't know....As a man, woman, child. You are missing my point here, it's just like the west screaming discrimination against women in islam when they are doing it themselves. If there are social and ethical issues in pakistan, they are evident in all religions, castes and sections of society. A poor woman/man or child will not get the required medical treatment because of lack of money, but that doesn't seem to bother anyone here. If a woman is targeted for the sins the men in her family committed, gang raped, it's fine..all's fair in war. A child will go without basic education and nutrition but that's fine, just usual day in the life of a person. People get wrong treatment in the hospital and die for no reason, oh too bad! happens.

But we can all have a nice discussion, condemning the persecution of a certain sect of the society and feel good about ourselves. Fine. Have it your way, but is your zameer satisfied? Does that justify all that's going on around us? Or are you all too self absorbed to see that?

Oh, yes...we'll all remain pakistani so-called brothers after getting all this crap.

Its mean you didn’t understand my attention, which to prevent further depression in minorities.

But your manner shows that you never have personality to resolve, but to propagate and exaggerator things. One child could understand, that my attention was pure. I wish that other people could also called you back, as you been irrational even to my attention.

Did I not try to resolve the things, from all perspective? What do you want? that minority Pakistani rose up and ask more rights or free land in Pakistan? Is that you want? My attention was try to listen views of minorities, coz

THAT MAKE HEALTHY ATMOSPHERE IN PAKISTAN SOCIETY.

And if your mind hasn’t has that approach please clam and ignore and leave.

Many would agree with me, we want healthy Pakistan where minorities can share and heard. This is picture of better Pakistan.

About you cry over crime rate or literacy rate or poverty, all due to corruption of the our governments. All governments were corrupted since 1960. I remembered one of my Korean class mate (who was on foreign exchange program on Karachi University) told me that before 1960 Pakistan helped Korea, providing rise, flour and other food items. Now you could see Pakistan looking for every help from Korea. Motor way project from Karachi to Islamabad is favor of Korean governments. You see how our government corruption led us, from top to bottom. Wasting assets and resources for unconcern objectives. Where poor become poorest and wealthy – wealthiest.

And Healthy Pakistan is answer of that corruption. Mark my words.

Waslam wabarukatehu

[sunil73]

Sunil,

Don't take comments so personnally. I did not mean to offend you with my comments. If you consider all muslims as murderers it is perfectly fine. You have the liberty to think whatever you want to think [just like every body else here]. But please don't enforce your ideology on other people. We read newspapers and magazines too, and we as a musims understand, how many christians have persecuted muslims and vice versa.

If you watch Michael Moore's documentary 'Farenheit 9/11' you will learn how two muslims civilizations have been completely destroyed by the crusade war waged by the conservative christians of America [Bush and Cheney] and Europe [Tony Blair].

Secondly, if you read indian muslims history, you will learn how British goverments [christian fanatics] had massacred thousands of muslim families, after the 1857 war of independence. And had raped almost one million muslim women.

Third check the following links out and witness the persecution of muslims:

http://www.mwlusa.org/presentations/speech_persec.html

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2001/08/20/uzbeki1376.htm


CAN YOU JUSTIFY SUCH CHRISTIANS PERSECUTION OF MUSLIMS

My concentration wasn’t to disgrace some religion as whole. But from the beginning I opposed this forum, when somebody said, “ 7/7 bomber was not Pakistani”. But in reality, yes there are, coz some fanatic factors who been behind brainwashing and all hatred. Now, watch that video

http://www.nefafoundation.org/video/protest.w...

From the beginning people wrestle me without reasoning.
I notice that every Tom Dick Harry, playing his/her pathetic unreasonable melody.

But, Why on earth you continue saying my sources are not corrects? Didn’t you notice when I said, I HAVE STILL FAMILY, RELATIVES & FRIENDS living back in Pakistan? Why its difficult to you understand this aspect?

Your denial won’t change anything? The ground facts will remain different and whole world have quite knowledge with personal and eye witness accounts.

Why you are not accepting news from media when they talked about Christian persecution.

Hence you will recognize western media when they talked about “inhumanity in Gantanumo bay” or “pictures of Abu grab prison” or when “British personal beating Iraqis boys”. Coz these all news also came from same western media, and when you consider those news vigorously why its painful to accept news about Christian persecution in Pakistan or else where.

Here you go again, you still refer me without hesitation Michael moor’s
“Investigation” movie. Its also produce by western liberal media, isn’t?

I understand how much its inspire and attract you and others. Could you produce such diverse style news about Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?

Could you answer me this, why Michael moor’s theory not been recognizing widely? If his theory or investigation has solid ground, it could be reach to court long ago. As Clinton’s scandal with Monica, or water gate scandal of Richard Nixon.

The American didn’t attack on Afghanistan or Iraq in the name of religion. You are not watching Christian ruining here and there and claiming life in the name of their religion or chanting kill or beheaded other in the name of Christianity.

Did you saw any Christian behaving like that?

Western countries did propagate their agenda to rule other, but not to project Christianity, if they did or does, then the situation will be difference. I had hoped they could, than your claim become more solid. Right?

Your question, English persecution on muslims or shall is say Asian community.

My response is, did English people came to convert the Asian ppl into Christianity? If yes then why didn’t they convert Christian as they could do, I mean by force? The history witnesses that English government never demand or try to convert people in Christianity in south Asia.

If they did, then I assure you there will be Christian majority and influence in indo-pak. Just like after islamic invasion thousand year old Egyptian, Tunisia, Turkish or Persian (and many other) civilization been changed forcefully.

Yes English government was fanatic, but fanatic to occupy other lands and govern other nations. They were not fanatic Christians, if they were then majority will be Christian in south aisa. And secondly they will not allow muslims immigrants to settle in UK. And you know that mostly immigrants were and are muslims, from third world poor muslims countries in Europe or in USA. You do know that, don’t you?

Its reveal that western societies never been anti-islam, as vast majority immigrants are muslims. But now the situation is changing very quickly in west, and the responsible are those muslims extremist groups which never been condemn by other muslims.


Go there and sign the petition and safe a life.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4831426...

[sunil73]

Sunil,

Let me inform you as a friend that your sources are not as authentic as they should be to justify your argument. Good and bad muslims are every where just like good and bad hindus, christians, and jews. So just concentrating your whole argument against the muslims would not help you win any points. Please next time do try to produce counterarguments, so that the readers don't worry that you are one hypocrite fanatic yourself. If you go back and read your own comments you will notice for yourself that all the arguments that you have provided up to this point against muslims reflects some ethnocentric motives.

As a friend I apologize if any fool from our community has inflicted harm on you and any other individual representing Pakistani minority group. There was once a time when muslims, christians, hindus, and jews use to live together as brothers, and as a peace loving civilization. But the growing fanaticism, unemployment, curruption, and apathy in all countries and society has certainly put humanity and all relationships on a brink. I regret much of what world has recently seen and gone through. And send a message of peace to all of you.

Please brother and sisters try to remember us as good friends and well wishers of yours. May peace be on you.

friend,

As I said my attention wasn’t disgrace islam, and I am sorry if you got that impression from me. Its not true that I am against all muslims. How you come to this point?

I am agree with you that there was time when different faiths live together, you might not accept, but I still hope for that, yes this is true. I have always soft corner for Pakistan and its people as its been my home always, no matter where I live and how long.

My concentration was, my Pakistani muslim friends should release that how one minority felt in Pakistani society. I thankful to you, for understanding and come to realize the factors behind all that hate and abhorrence.

I hope that other also understand and agree with me that better Pakistan is for all faiths, and all faiths could make better Pakistan.

[sunil73]

@ Evian

Well here you go again, with more heresy, does your feeble and bigot arguments ever ended. And what is that crap? Every one knows that first couple of years brought most hardship and hurdle to one who migrates to west. And as soon as one lived more, he/she integrated in the society, but only if he really wants to. And if I don’t have problem with my first couple years, then it will be never in future as I am integrated in the society. Your feeble conclusion never makes sense. lol

Why you always try to plump heresy? Your views are full with mean mental approach and cunning emotions.

I am curious to understand, that do you really live in USA? Because USA has most diverse ideological people live together. Then why you not accepting same thing diverse ideology from Pakistani.

You seems to negative towards USA or west, then why you living their? Why you are so cunning to getting advantages and misusing liberty and human rights? And this is same attitude of other Muslims. Now you agree with me when I say, people learn from each other.

Now here comes the interesting part, if you not faithful to the country where you residing and getting advantages, how come you expect Pakistani minorities to be faithful ……

Why you putting words in my mouth?