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Thread: Can Muslims settle in kaafir countries for sake of better life? ?

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Evian @ Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:08 am
    Oh, wait........Noorzei,

    I just checked your first post... You twisted it!!

    I think the reference was made about mushrikeen, not kuffaar. Please define both these terms.
    Evian, have a breath !! I twisted it?


    Did I say that I wrote that article?

    Do you really read my first post of the thread?

    Here are the exact words I wrote in my first post;

    “Recently a friend had forward me some article from muslim scholar, where he stated that according to Quran and Sunah it is haram to settle in kaafir countries for better life!!

    What you ppl think? Here is it with link!”


    After that I posted links, which anyone could read the article that someone queries and the scholar replied. That's why i posted two different links, for you ppl to observe the difference, it there any.

    Can any one see i twisted the article?

    Did I influence those articles? Or influence any ppl? I made it open for every one to share their views.

    Did I try to change things in the article? Or misrepresent article?

    PROOF it, that I intend to change or divert things from articles.

    It is obvious that none of you read the article in detail !!

    And none of you try to understand why I posted the article.


    I am really disheartened to see level of apporach of you.

  2. #42
    I am desperate to post the partial view of the article.


    Question #13363 : Can Muslims settle in kaafir countries for the sake of a better life?


    Answer :

    Praise be to Allaah.

    The basic principle is that it is not permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.

    In the Qur’aan, Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination!” [al-Nisa’ 4:97]

    In the Sunnah, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    With regard to common sense, the Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen cannot carry out many of the rituals and visible acts of worship of Islam, in addition to the fact that he is exposing himself to temptation because of the permissiveness in those countries that is protected by their laws. The Muslim should not expose himself to temptations and trials.

    http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=13363+

  3. #43
    Brother noorzei,

    With all due respect, posting an article from another site serves no purpose. What are you views on this article? i.e. are you against it or in favor of?

    Before I comment on your respectable topic any further, I'd like to know that what is better life? How does common sense limits you from going out to a kaffir country in search of better life when you are able to practice Islam freely?

    The importance of migration to a kaffir country is sustained by the fact that our Islamic calendar, the Hijra, begins with the migration of the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) from Mecca to Madinah Sharif which gives us an insight on the importance of migration and the 'reason' itself. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't yuhud in majority at the time of migration in Madina sharif?

    If muslims were told to abandon/not to visit kaffir countries then you & I couldn't have been muslims today. Muslims from the gulf migrated to India and spread the word of Islam.

    “I disown every Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2645; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood


    This is to be understood as referring to those who are not safe to practise Islam in certain countries.

    Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

    Settling in a kaafir country poses a great danger to the Muslim’s religious commitment, morals, behaviour and etiquette. We and others have seen how many of those who settled there went astray and came back different from when they went; they have come back as evildoers, and some have come back having apostatized from their religion and disbelieving in it and in all other religions – we seek refuge with Allaah – denying it completely and mocking the religion and its people, past and present. Hence we must take measures to guard against that and stipulate conditions which will prevent people from following this path which leads to doom and destruction.
    So, Shakh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen's message clears many doubts about migration excercises to kaffir countries. There are some exceptions in which you are allowed to settle there in circumstances as such as when you are propagating Islam (spreading the word of Allah swt & His Messenger S.A.W. ) alongside practicing it freely, for educational purposes, for health or jihad.

    I would also like to quote this text from a website:

    If a person is unable to hold onto his Deen, reject shirk and kufr (interfaith, multiculturalism, integration, the false ways of life, deities, traditions, laws, religions and customs of the non-Muslims etc.), disassociate himself from the disbelievers (by not voting for them, participating in their political processes or joining their forces etc.) and openly invite society to Islam; it becomes prohibited for him to live amongst them and hijrah (migration) becomes obligatory upon him.
    Source: http://www.thesavedsect.com/articles...sbelievers.htm
    If you can spread Islam & practice your beliefs freely then there is no harm in doing so. Then again, I can be wrong, if so, please guide me.
    Dream, I do.

  4. #44
    May be you notice, I never publish articles here before but only links.

    But when someone made objection on my sincerity, and named it “twisted writings”. Then I can’t hold myself to react on this with appropriate way. This is so vulgar and impolite saying that I twisted things.

    Now tell me did I spreading anti- Islamic teaching (Nauws-e-Billah) here! Or spreading hatred here!

    I only share things and want views from others. Tell me I am wrong, if I influence or try to twisted things. I just said that here it some teaching and what other think off.

    But I am disagree, and obviously get offended when someone just due to his material intention reject Islamic teaching, or try to overwrite it.

    I am not saying ok, pack your bags and lets go back, have you seen me packing things. NO

    But I dislike all those who just stood up after learning some “suhood” and try to reject divine teachings.

    Yeh it is correct, yuhud were in majority at the time of migration to Madina sharif, but weren’t the intention to have safe place for muslim lives. There you will not see, greediness or material desire involved.

    You know bro, as I said before, I disheartened that I came here and try to talk. Really this is true I am saddened today. Our ummah still need some time to reason thoroughly.

    Allah Hafiz

  5. #45
    Noorzei, i think i shouldn't have used the word twisted.

    I meant that you were initially referring to mushrikeen, but then you used the word kaafir. So i just want to know the difference between the two in your opinion.

    Here's a copy of your first post:


    Recently a friend had forward me some article from muslim scholar, where he stated that according to Quran and Sunah it is haram to settle in kaafir countries for better life!!

    What you ppl think?

    Here is it with link!


    * The basic principle is that it is NOT permissible for the Muslim to settle among the mushrikeen. This is indicated by evidence from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and on the basis of common sense.

    (read full here)

    http://63.175.194.25/index.php?formt...owse&QR=13363+

    .........

    * The basic principle is that it is haraam to settle among the mushrikeen and in their land

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by noorzei @ Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:31 am
    Quote Originally Posted by snakhtar @ Sun Jul 09, 2006 4:06 am
    Come on Noorzei you don't have to quit man. I like your posts. They are challenging and serious. it is just that you don't like taking critcism too much. But that is part of the deal with everyone who post here. So don't worry if someone like your post or not.

    Mytose same goes for you. You don't have to take things so seriously either.

    And please both of u stop swearing at each other. Act like adults people.
    Mate, I am not afraid of criticism neither from debate, doing debates from quite some time and most of the time with western on international level. Neither effected by some rubbish or juvenile comments. If someone like it or not, I don’t care, coz I know where I am stands in society and what had I achieved.

    But the reason is most of my ummah is still in dark ages, their mind stuck in somewhere back history. And ONLY learns how to make “gibberish arguments” as they inspired by showbiz. That's why i regretted to discussing with them.

    Anyhow, thanks for kind comments.
    man I interact with western scholars everyday too since I am a member of honor role society, but yet I don't use such details as a punchline to support my argument. Noorzai if you have anything better to say please comment. other than that who cares if you drive a limo or hang out with barristers.

  7. #47
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  8. #48
    Ladies and gentlemen.....


    We have deviated from the topic!!

  9. #49
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  10. #50
    Thanks Admin to intervene. I apologies to you if i offend you somewhere with my behaviour. My only wish was to stay on the topic and debate.

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